Date of Meeting

- Dave Bartram
- Owain
- Kai
- Dan Rolph
- Peter
- Rebecca Davies
- Tim
- Smithers (minuting)
- Chris
- Alex

- House o' Fail

- None

Meeting opened: 6:20

Committee's Reports

Chair's Report: Nothing special to say

Treasurer's Report: We have money - ~£1200 SGI.
- Has been talking with Peter about what to buy.
- Petty cash now sorted out.

Chair of Vice's Report: Nothing broken!
Also, he will be going to the pub two weeks Wed (9th May)

Librarian's Report: TAKE THOSE BOOKS AWAY!!!
Ed & Peter traded a bag of books in Notting Hill for £10

Tim: Ali authorised to replace, Cryptonomicon, Neutronium Alchemist.
Tave: Need to authorise any purchases?
Peter: I can't be arsed to okay it with the committee, I'm just getting it done. All of X-Files replaced, Crusade replaced, going to replace final series of Stargate (Season 2).
Tim: Also replaced half of Dark Angel, for some reason.
Dan: We should get rid of the books by entering them for the Turner Prize.
Peter: SHUT UP! Anyway... some of these will be traded in for hopefully lots of money.
Some of them will be left around campus with flyers or bookmarks or something inside - 'A Free Book from ICSF'.
Alex: Captain Power and Soldiers of the Future was the shiniest video on the shelf.
Dave: What's the mouse situation?
Peter: There *are* mice.
Dan: [Outlines plan]
Alex: Is this a plan or a pln?
Peter: My ACTUAL plan is to shoot people who eat messily, and find something that will block the gap under the door, which I think is their only means of entry.
Dan: There must be easier means of entry.
Peter: I believe they're getting under the door, and nothing else. Its not easy for them to actually climb up and down from the roof.
Dan: Do we want to put into action that humane mousetrap thing?
Peter: Yes.
Tim: What you do is you film it, and provide a comedy soundtrack.
[Alcohol discussed]
Dan: What do we do when we've caught the mice?
Peter: Throw them away. If anyone can come up with a good way of actually blocking the door...
Dan: Find a Fresher and persuade them to spend all their time lying in front of the door.
Alex: It can't be that hard to find a basic draft excluder.
Tim: Hard to find one a mouse can't wriggle through anyway.
Dan: Draft-proofing foam adhesive strips might work...
[Drama John enters]
Peter: Ahh, John! You're the perfect person to solve this: Mice are getting under the door, solve it.
Becca: What about the Bottle of Pain?
Peter: Our Bottle of Pain is actually quite sh*t.
[Corpses of mice discussed]
Dave: We will find other opportunities to discuss madcap schemes for the extermination of mice. We can wrap up our librarian's report.
Peter: But I haven't even finished! Tim and I have moved lots of stuff around. Note that Greek Letters come alphabetically after other letters.
Alex: Does the film 'The Omega Man' not exist?
Tim: [the obvious]
Peter: So now we have some shelf space. BTW, we got a lovely letter from Cat.
[Letter from Cat distributed]
Peter: I (or Tim) have now catalogued all the books donated by Steve Newhouse, Robert Atwood or that other guy. Now they're lying on the tops of shelves and need to be moved around again, which will be fun.
[Schemes for transporting books to Notting Hill discussed... eg large suitcases]
Peter: Is there anything people think we should get?
Owain: You know what my entry is, and you've said 'No' many times.
Peter: 'Where's my Cow'?
Owain: *nod*
Tim: ... reopening the argument of getting TNG.
Dave: We voted: 'people won't borrow it, are we willing to pay for shelf space? The vote was no.'
Peter: ... I'm not sure 'people won't borrow it' is entirely true... I've talked to people who didn't know we had it...
[Christen enters]
Alex: Also, people borrow things on DVD a lot more because they don't have VCRs and DVDs are much easier to transport.
Peter: The majority of video loans are to postgrads.
Owain: Maybe put a notice saying 'if we had this on DVD, would you borrow it?' And if one gets more than say ten, we buy it.
Peter: That's a good idea.

Other Reports:
Peter: On the website: Michelle is buying a house, so little progress there.
Alex: Ed appears to be doing stuff for Picocon, the guy's disturbingly keen.
Dave: He's determined to plan it in reverse order: All the things Alex and I worried about last, first. Eg questions to do with guests that we don't usually worry about until we have guests. ALso topics for the panel, babysitters. In conclusion, he's keen and competent and stuff.
Someone: He should run Unicon.
Tim: Technically, the fish duel is to determine who should run Unicon.
Drama John: THe loser should be forced to run Unicon.

Editor's Report: UUUuggugugh. Sorry, no Wyrmtongues, but there will be a bumper fanzine, I promise. This time I'm not lying. Send me stuff.
Alex: I can't tell whether that was intended as a Tolkien or an Exalted reference.
Dave: Which brings us smoothly to the Haye on Wye trip.

Hay on Wye Trip

Becca: Eric Lai has given us monies.
Dave: ANd we find out how much they've given us, at some point?
Peter: WHen I've finished the application.
Becca: We have a provisional booking for a bunk house. Its a few miles outside Haye on Wye, but as long as we pass the minibus test... also its by a pub!
Alex: This is important because we don't have to go to the pub and hope someone is sober enough to drive back.
Dan: We do have to hope that people are sober in the morning...
Becca: I don't actually drink that much alcohol...
Dave: Ah, lying with the truth. Anyway, what do we know about this place?
Peter: Its a room with some bunk beds in it.
Alex: It will be cosy...
Dave: Is there anything else that the application committed us to?
Tim: Yes. Regarding payment per person, based on our guesstimations of expenses, we're looking at a maximum of just under £30 per person. We've set the charge per person at £20 per person because its better to raise it later than lower it.
Dave: Have we minuted the date?
Becca: 24th/25th of June, which is a Sunday/Monday.
Alex: That will be much better for driving, because driving back on a Sunday night would be a thing of horror.
Peter: How much will be open on a Sunday?
Alex: Plenty, I've been there before.
Peter: Insulting the Welsh is funny.
[Regional insults and trivia exchanged]
Dan: Its a legal requirement that Xmas dinner be no more than three courses.
Alex: Anyway...
Dave: What's our state of play re minibuses?
Alex: We've done the theory tests, submitted forms, and need to organise a practical test. I had a... small... recent accident on the form, I'm not sure what they'll say about that.
Dave: My God, you're not dead?
Alex: ...
Dave: So in terms of getting the minibus at the right time...?
Becca: You can't book it more than three weeks in advance. Or two weeks. Certainly not more than three.
Peter: From what I've seen of the website of the concrete bunker Becca's got us into, we need to bring sleeping bags, a pillow slip and a towel. (Its aimed at campers.)
[Discussion of collapsible beds]
Christen: I've lived in a matchbox on the M25!
Dan: Luxury!
Alex: So...
Owain: Do we know how many people can go on the trip?
Tim: 16! 3 filled.
Becca: They're only filled when you've paid for them, to enable members who are not... us... to maybe come.
Dave: In particular, this needs to not be horribly corrupt, otherwise I have been a junket in the organisation of a jolly for me and my mates. Its on the books as a tour, so people probably care whether its corrupt or not.
Peter: I imagine that we'll get about ten percent of our travel costs...
Tim: We'll find out how much the union is giving us, and then work out how much we're going to charge. I doubt it'll go higher than £25, for even if the Union fails, I'll probably fund the balance out of ICSF.
Peter: When we've decided it, we'll send out an e-mail to the ICSF lists.
Becca: Everyone on the database is on the list?
Peter: I'll sort that out.
Tim: Honestly, I doubt we'll actually get anyone outside the Inner Circle but its important that we give them the opportunity.
Alex: Its important that we advertise.
Tim: Bookings 'open at this time...', First Come First Served, etc.
Dave: I think that concludes what we know and can say about Haye on Wye. I'm going to move onto 'Budget' - whether we'll appeal.


Tim: As people know, our budget is slightly reduced this year. ITs not as bad as it looks because they've scrapped this silly thing where we pay back 10% of our membership fees. This year... was it £300 total? I think its £44 for equipment, and about £250 for books. We've lost our publicity (£10 so it doesn't matter), and £100 for Picocon.
Dave: Its worth noting that we've had a particular strong Picocon this year. ...
Peter: I should point out that the Speaker's budget... the Union caps it at X per speaker.
Tim: But we're well below the cap, because its about £50 and we asked for £100 for three speakers.
Peter: I'm not convinced you're right.
Tim: Last time I checked it was £50... I'll have to hunt it down and confirm it.
Dave: What and when would we have to do?
Tim: I don't know - James [something] who was providing info on appeals hasn't got back to me.
Dave: I seem to recall that at the start of the year there's an opening for appeals...
Tim: That's an exception for if you've had an incompetent committee last year.
Dave: Okay, we'll need to talk to James Millen[?]... he's incommunicado... once we know about that, we'll...
Tim: Tentatively, once we know about appeals and our budget is good, do we want to appeal?
Dave: Vote? In favour of appeals.
Yes: 10
No: 0
Abstentions: 2
So passed.
Alex: I'll take care of that, if you like.
Dave: Any other business? I have quite a lot, so I'm going to be a horrendously bad Chairman and go through all my stuff first.

Other Business

First, the Black Pearl Anniversary lunch happened, and went rather well. We had a lot more people than I expected - a *lot* more than said they were coming - ah well. One of them bought lots of books for the library, so we have some crappy books to give away.
Peter: We also got some rather good books.
Dave: Zombie Nazi Regency Snipers...
Dave: So yeah, we're off the hook for another five years. But yeah, it was nice and there were photos of Dave Clements before he was bald, so it was educational and entertaining!
Dan: Edutainment...
Alex: Never say that word again.
Dave: Orbit, said to me 'do you want to be on our mailing list that means you get free books every month?', I said 'yes!' so... basically, there was nothing to stop us just nyomming them and taking their books, although they would like us to force march all our friends to Waterstones so they can make enormous Profit but there's no obligation.
Tim: How did they find our contact details?
Dave: They do publish both Ken and Charlie, so its possible they mentioned it. But for all I know I've met one of their employees at the BSFA... anyway, we get new books.
Peter: Importantly, *new* books. As opposed to 'Space Gypsies'.
Dave: I don't know if they send us their second stringers, or if maybe we find we don't have to go out and buy the new Banks book... anyway, if its something we really don't want we can always e-mail them and say, 'take us off the list'.
Dave: Now - training for officers next year. Are all the new officers on the committee list?
Becca: I don't think Rebecca is.
Dave: Make people be on the list, then send out an e-mail saying 'track down the previous officer'. Present committee be prepared to convey your voluminous wisdom.
Tim: I'm toying with the idea of training him wrong for entertainment purposes.
Becca: Can we have a Treasurer Training Montage? It would be a lot like 'I was born to be a bureaucrat'.
Dave: [Official union training] You may hear some interesting stories about the escapades of luminaries such as Dave Parry.
Peter: Also you get to write notes like 'Fraud Manual'.
Tim: Those of you who've gone, shouldn't have to go again. Smithers will have to do finance training.
Smithers: In my capacity as Chair-elect, I've been told I must send the blurb for the A-Z. So here's a current A-Z, which I have cleverly procured, have a look and see if there's anything we need to change besides the number of books.
Peter: Remember to send them the picture of our library.
Dave: Its still a picture from approximately 9 billion years ago. There's the Earth forming around a core of protomatter right there...
Alex: We should lie about the books - it would be a good lie because it could be OVER 9000!!! But otherwise, its a reasonable blurb, except the numbers and the picture.
Dave: A contact address that works... this one sort of semi-works, but don't use it.
Alex: ... I think we should have, at least some video showings a week.
Dave: I think we should still start with the schedule - including the browsing day - but it is a fine tradition, people do come along to watch Indiana Jones or The Princess Bride. After that we can do whatever.
Owain: This year a lot of people have said, 'oh we quite like it quiet'.
Becca: Having nothing on has become a popular idea, so those urging for something to be put on get shouted down, not the reverse.
Dave: In the past it has been that there was always something on, but not anymore...
Alex: The quality of banter has gone up!
Dave: The esoteric quality of banter has increased...
Peter: Let it be minuted that when I first suggested the browsing people were like, 'that'll never work'...
Tim: Noone likes a sore winner.
[Meatsoc discussion]
Dave: Do we have any other business?
Tim: I actually have serious other business! First off, there have been discussions of setting up some means of having internet access for people with their laptops in here. According to some Old Ones, there was once a hub in here, but it was removed one someone tried to ping MI5.
Someone: Was it large annoying Tom?
Tim: Yes. But if people want this... shall I go and talk to IT and see if it can be done?
Peter: Can I make a counter argument that I don't want a wired hub, if we have one it should be wireless.
Owain: IT will say f*ck that.
Peter: Well in that case...
Tim: On the other hand, if its plugged into the college network they can't actually access it without being logged onto the college network.
Peter: Cables trailing everyone pisses me off. Also, when we have two or three people on the internets, they're sitting here taking up space and not contributing anything.
Tim: I'm getting the feeling we don't want to do this? Or at least Peter doesn't..
Dave: I agree with Peter, there are other negatives... eg the ease of doing things like those Mediocre Tom was up to. Random miscreant X could do something annoying with our hardware... its just a headache. And I don't like people sharing their 4chan images. And I don't like the possibility of abuse... that's a personal professional opinion, as it were.
Owain: If IT says in principle they can allow it, we can discuss further..
Peter: I can see them saying 'okay, yes, we'll put one of *our* thingies down here' but even so, I still wouldn't want it.
Dave: It sounds to me that it sounds like we have people willing to ask IT, and it'd be silly to vote on something IT might just say no to.
Tim: Shall we vote on, 'assuming we can come up with... if there are people here opposed to the whole idea of having accessible internet access in ICSF'?
Owain: Lots of the computer users aren't here.
Dave: Yes, we have a huge group of people who would say yes and they're not here.
Alex: If college IT did it, the 'legal issues' of it being ICSF property wouldn't be there, and if it was discouraged at lunchtimes it might be okay.
Tim: We could have a rule 'no laptops at lunchtimes'.
Dave: I have different feelings about ICT piping... putting their wireless down here, compared to 'we buy a hub'. In fact I would be in favour of the one and not the other.
Tim: Okay, I'll talk to IT and see what they might be willing to do.
Dave: Other bits of business?
Tim: I think we need to talk about our DVD policy - I know I mentioned it before but it got delayed to after Picocon. Peter's policy is people can borrow uncopied movies but not series, right?
Peter: Yep. Well, except to people I like.
Tim: That's the problem, we're lending to people we trust but that's arbitrary...
Peter: I won't lend to people I specifically distrust...
Tim: What we're talking about is different grades of borrowing priveleges based on how long you've been here and how well known to the committee you are.
Peter: Its not quite that, if you've borrowed something and returned it then you can borrow whatever at that point.
Dave: It would be madness to have a rule where more people are excepted than have to follow it. 'At librarian's discretion' needs to be in the rule.
Peter: If I can explain - the rule that's written on the database is, 'if its not copied you can't have it', but I've been interpreting it... as Tim points out its stupid because we're not copying fast enough and have bought loads of things people want to borrow. But I absolutely won't lend parts of series. ....
Tim: You're going with the principle people are untrustworthy until proven otherwise. I think we should have a hard line on 'don't lend parts of uncopied series'. But we should say you can borrow uncopied movies until you are proven untrustworthy. I don't think we should... its not a problem this year really, but it'll be an issue next year when there are lots of Freshers who we won't know.
Dave: A rule like 'if you've borrowed something once you're trustworthy' is a meaningless hoop because you can easily just borrow something arbitrary and return it the next day.
Owain: Rule 7 applies?
Tim: But you can't be sure they're taking the piss, they could just be a fast reader.
Peter: Well, if they've done that - even if someone is getting something out explicitly to get an uncopied disk, its still no longer just 'over the counter'.
Dave: I think the rule needs to be, 'no borrowing uncopied series disks, you may borrow uncopied movies, but this right may be revoked'.
Peter: 'this right may be revoked' is redundant.
Tim: Any borrowing privelege can already be revoked.
Dave: Okay, motion that our policy be 'no borrowing uncopied series disks, you may borrow uncopied movies'.
Yes: 10
No: 1
Absentions: 1?
So passed.
Note: the opposer was Peter. Peter: I believe that having a time pause in between when you can join and when you can borrow is good...
Dave: Next was Kai, I think?
Kai: It was noted that barnights are too frequent...
Alex: There needs to be noted that there's a difference between an official barnight and a Thursday evening in the pub.
Dave: I suggest that each term should have its set barnights, and the Chair of Vice also has the power to say, 'Its Boris's birthday so we're going to the pub' on the main list, as is their duty. The whole the barnight system is an e-mail a couple of days before which is great, but I sometimes think it'd be good to have official barnights planned out.
Owain: We should have... 'we're going to the pub feel free to join us', not 'its a big thing'
Becca: But is that obvious to people who aren't regulars?
Dave: A lot of the older members etc. can't respond on that kind of basis, a casual barnight setup, because they're busy and such. I don't think its bad that we've had a casual barnight system, its bad that we've *only* had a casual barnight system.
[Munchkin Matt turns up]
[discussion of the failings of the mailing list]
Owain: Everyone who signs up *should* be on the mailing list. ANd they're not.
Dave: I think we've discussed that [barnights] to death now, Kai will decide next year.
Alex: Any serious other business?
Drama John: Nothing on the Dalek for a while, exams.
Alex: Okay - the society was present at a world record yesterday. Almost every committee position was represented, and we had a bottle of gin, and it was good.
Tim: THe final count was just over 5,500 people.
Alex: We clippety clopped coconuts together and it was very nice.
Tim: Ali actually went to see Spamalot, and everyone there had been to the world record attempt so they were all clippety clopping along and it was good.
Someone: Where did they get the coconut shells? S
omeone else: I think there is a coconut industry.
Alex: Smithers has gone above and beyond with the minuting... a round of applause for Smithers.
[round of applause] (sorry, couldn't resist)
Dave: Okay. At the present time, I don't intend to schedule another another meeting until after my exams, at the end of May. If you think this is crazy, e-mail me.
Tim: We will need to discuss Haye on Wye, but these discussions mostly fall into my bailiwack so I can handle them.
Dave: Right - if there's issues, please e-mail me, I'm not banning another meeting, but I don't see any reason for one.

Meeting Closed: 7:49